My thoughts on Buddhism

one thing I know for sure

Published on December 9, 2004 By baublebouche In Religion

I'm in no way an expert in Theravada Buddhism, but I have picked up a few things from living in this culture. My stories come via the oral tradition, not long hours of study, so if you want perfection, please check your friendly, local encyclopedia.
First, one of the main premises is letting go of desires. (no desires, no pain? The original buddha was searching for a way to eliminate pain).
Second, making "merit" is very important. The more one gives, the more one gets. The more one gives, the closer one is to entering "Enlightenment" and ending the cycle of reincarnation.

My mental wanderings and late night ponderings....
IF there is no God. IF all men are capable of reaching "enlightenment" and becoming gods themselves. IF doing good things is the way we become gods... how is "good" determined?

Bear with me. I'm a visual one. IMAGINE A BUCKET. uh, yeah, I said bear with me.

Each point you earn goes in the bucket. The really dense, "I'm bleeding for you" deeds sink straight to the bottom. The everday goodness, opening the door for sweet old ladies and whatnot, floats on the top. Whoever has the most sinkers in the end reaches Enlightenment, right?

What's the problem with this picture? I'm not a science wiz, but how would we know if the deeds would sink or float without water? If we had no density with which to compare our deeds, how could we judge their density?

Can you see it as loud as I hear it? The "I'll be a good person and earn my merits" philosophy cannot work. It doesn't make sense without a comparative Density.

Whaddya say?

Jeaners

Comments

Shulamite

on Dec 11, 2004

Most all metaphors break down when you're talking about God, so I'm sure someone will have a response. That's why His word is the only thing that ever really stands. Amazing huh? However I gave you an insightful, because you pinpoint it. You say we can't do good and get anywere because good is relative (moral relativism) without a criteria, value, or some sort of standard by which to compare it.

No human is good enough to be the standard. Buddhists often look to Buddha as that standard, but are ultimately looking toward an imperfect person. Buddha spent just as much of his life fumbling around for the right thing to do as anyone else stands a chance to do. What factors could have altered his lifestyle in such a way that he'd not have been able to reach "enlightenment"? If he'd have had a family and a child died -- would he feel enlightened? A lot of what he said is said theoretically for him. He developed and cultivated a very stress-free life -- something that is not a reality for most of us today. His cultivations and techniques are of some great value, without doubt. His theories are as insightful as any other philosopher. But do they practically apply? What redemption is offered? What standard besides himself does he offer? What help with guilt or cleansing do his theories give? I know so very little about Buddhism and that's perhaps why I have so many questions. Did he offer peace or denial and unattachment? Does he require an aloof spirit of you? How does this square with what we know to be a good deed?

Phoenixboi

on Dec 11, 2004

I have studied a little of Buddhism. Here is what I think your trying to get at and trying to understand and how I understand it to be for me.

The Buddha was searching for a way to end "suffering". He found what was to be known as the "Middle Path" and that is basically the same sort of thing as the commandments in christianity. He found that by following this path that he found what was known as "Nirvana" or enlightenment. (not the end, just the begining).

ok

With the bucket do good deeds stuff...

What I think is meant by this is that if you fill your life by doing good things, then you will acumulate merit by way of karma.. that means that for every action there is a reaction. If you do good then only good can come to you. So there really isnt a bucket.. but there is an accumulation of merit.. so that with you only doing "good" then what follows is good and therefore your heart and your mind become like a conduit for good. Thereby ending suffering in our lives and at the same time helping to end the suffering in others lives as well. So see it as not that your doing something just because your going to get something good in return, BUT that your doing something to end the suffering for other people around you, therby helping to end the suffering in the world and helping to ackomplish what the Buddha himself set out to achieve.

I think that it can be said not only of Buddhism but of all the other major religions of the world as well. That if we "Do unto others as we would have them do unto us" then this world would be a better place to live and love in.

Hope this helps a little.

baublebouche

on Dec 11, 2004

Phoenix, Thanks for the information. Any new insight is helpful, but I still have questions. You said,

so that with you only doing "good" then what follows is good and therefore your heart and your mind become like a conduit for good.

I think, in theory, that's a great picture. I wonder, though, if giving motivated by karma can ever be true giving. ? Here's an example from Buddhist culture that I've observed: There's a lady in my neighborhood who makes somtam and other quickie meals. I biked past her everyday and really wanted to befriend her, so I gave her some fruit. We started talking and (I thought) becoming friends. A few weeks later, she gave me a traditional outfit. Now, whenever I see her, there's this tension in the air... like until I reciprocate, we can't be friends. This may be an extreme example, but this is the foundation upon which the Buddhist culture (as I understand it) is based. Give with the expectation of reciprocation. My neighbors come over and shower me with mangoes when I'm baking. hmmmm.... It reminds me of what the Bible says about people. Without love, we're like banging gongs. All noise and reaction. My point is, I think if people were pure, the conduit would work great, but I don't think we can be pure enough (without intervention) that our giving isn't self-motivated. In our original condition, we're self-seekers and our attempts at ending the suffering of others are really attempts to end our own suffering.

baublebouche

on Dec 11, 2004

Shulamite, I'm no Buddhist scholar either, but regarding your question:

Did he offer peace or denial and unattachment?

The understanding I have here is that what people live is closer to denial and unattachment than it is to peace. Of course, each person has their own unique understanding and it's impossible for me to judge an entire people group by the relatively few relationships I've had. One of the foundational themes of this place is "don't think about it." So, the way people avoid pain in the daily hum of life is by not thinking about it. My bike light got stolen. "Don't think about it." I almost got hit by a bus. "Don't think about it." My new shirt is ruined. "Don't think about it." Shouldn't you leave a place for a drain before you pour the concrete? "Don't think about it." If someone is numb are they really at peace? I hope someone else can answer your questions, Shulamite.

Phoenixboi

on Dec 12, 2004

Hey Bauble...

if giving motivated by karma can ever be true giving. ?

like until I reciprocate, we can't be friends.

You answer your question here:

My point is, I think if people were pure, the conduit would work great,

This is really how it works I think in theory..

In our original condition, we're self-seekers and our attempts at ending the suffering of others are really attempts to end our own suffering.

But with a pure heart and pure intentions then I think we get to a stage where we give for the sake of giving, and love for the sake of loving, without seeking anything in return, that when we reach that stage of true enligtenment then really we do it for the sake of doing it, because we realise that we are one with everything and really we are doing it for our collective self.

The woman in your example doesnt seem like she really understands the true meaning behind it all. We really should be giving without expecting reciprocation, knowing that it will happen anyhow.

haha

on Dec 14, 2004

lalala

SkyTiger

on Jan 01, 2005

You have a very basic idea of Buddhism. The concept of merit is just that a concept. If it helps you to do good then use it but it is only the start. Once you have an understanding of emptiness then gaining or losing merit becomes a little meaningless. Also this concept of escaping reincarnation is a not really a Buddhist concept. Enlightenment does not mean escape from Samsara. It means realising Form and Emptiness are non-dual. You do not become God or disappear. You always remain an individual. This is what differentiates Buddhism from Hinduism. Buddhism has four denials concerning reality. It denies monism, dualism, eternalism and nihilism. Please check this site for more information. www.aroter.org.
Thanks
SkyTiger

Shulamite

on Jan 03, 2005

I don't like citing singular examples of a religion and using that to deliver a judgment or a "taste" for the entirety of the religion itself. For example, whenever I meet a Christian who did something wrong, I cannot expect that person to be perfect suddenly... I instead think of what that person would be like were they not a Christian. Each person is different and has different temptations to overcome. Sometimes the ones that are most outward and that we most abhor are not the worst of them all. Some are much more complex, darker, more blasphemus, and can therefore only be judged by the Judge Himself -- motives and thoughts taken into account.

However, I remain with the question: what does Buddha offer in way of releasing one from guilt? Redemption? Is there freedom found in Buddha? And what is that freedom like? So often we all use the same terms but never stop to define them, never knowing we're talking of completely different things! (Humpty Dumpty pays his words extra for such work!) Redemption, as bought and paid for, purchased from slavery to an old way of living. Something supernatural, beyond what we can do. In as much as people are imperfect, perfectly demonstrated by us all on a daily basis, what hope do we really have? Hope for a place where our misdeeds are remembered against us no more. This sounds like Christian jargon, but I assure you it is not. It's the only thing I can find that aleviates the issue of guilt.

baublebouche

on Jan 05, 2005

Sky, You'll notice I never claimed more than a basic understanding. I'll be sure to check out your site when I want the scholar's view of Buddhism in theory.

SkyTiger

on Jan 07, 2005

Thanks baublebouche. Buddhism is actually a very complex religion and has very different levels of understanding. I think you will find this in any religion. In a way it has nothing to do with the religion but the person who practises it. There are bad Buddhists and good Christians. You see there is theory and practice and you don't find many people who live by them both. I know I have to work on this. When you get more advanced however you rely less on rules and more on awareness and kindness.

baublebouche

on Jan 10, 2005

Sky, I have a question for you. Perhaps you answer it on your site. If so, just let me know. Buddhism, you say, at it's advanced level, becomes more about the person who practices it and less about the rules. I'm not sure if I'm misreading you, but if one of the main premises of Buddhism is absence of self... letting go of desire... how does it being all about the Self mesh with that? What is your basis for judging who is advanced and who is rookie Buddhist? You say the advanced are more aware.... Aware of what?

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!